Fate/Zero In-Depth Sub Review – Commie, UTW, Hatsuyuki, Crunchyroll

Fate/Zero has lots of action, but it’s a story/dialogue-driven show. It’s one of those shows that I think should be translated for absolute accuracy and detail. Each mistranslated line can cause some serious damage to the audience’s ability to understand the show, so these releases will be under extreme scrutiny for this review.

Episode 4 has been chosen because it was the episode with weakest niconico subs, which made it the ideal episode to determine how much each episode was altered (and % of error corrected) by fansub groups.

I was having trouble finding niconico subs at first because their SEO was garbage and there was nothing in their portal search engine (clusterfuck navigation too). I finally found the newest episode in their F/Z channel through Aniplex, whose SEO also turned out to be so shit that they couldn’t even get into the first Google SERP for keywords aniplex fate zero or fate zero streaming, but at least they had Google ads. I don’t know why all the official channels are making it so hard for a “willing viewer” to access their content.

Enough ranting… In the end, I resorted to HorribleSubs again for screens because I still don’t know how to download from Crunchyroll, which had completely different subs. I don’t see the slightest resemblance to any of the fansub groups (all used niconico subs and similar), so they may have been translated from scratch. You’ll just going to have to guess the original lines edited by all the fansub groups. In the end, only the final product matters anyway.

Comm: [Commie] Fate ⁄ Zero – 04 [92F5DEFA].mkv (niconico subs + edit)
UTW: [UTW]_Fate_Zero_-_04_[h264-720p][3A05B4E1].mkv (niconico subs + TLC + edit)
HTY: [Hatsuyuki]_Fate_Zero_-_04_[1280×720][25788F62].mkv (niconico subs + edit)
CR: [HorribleSubs] Fate Zero – 04 [720p].mkv (original translation)

All screenshots from HS (CR translation).

Technical scoring scheme:
* = -1 = Nuance errors, nitpicking, minor logic errors. I am a strong believer in providing clarity in subs, and interpret as much as possible without deviating the intended meaning. These errors can be ignored if the group aimed for smooth scripts (if those lines really are smoother). F/Z is not the easiest series to follow IMO though, so this style should be chosen.
** = -2 = Minor errors, excessive ambiguity, severe logic errors, minor context (he -> they etc), missing details, minor consistency  errors etc. Very poor translations that still gets the message across.
*** = -5 = Critical errors, major context errors (he -> I etc), misinterpretations, major consistency errors. Does not represent what was actually being said.

Scoring scheme is updated to have a lower level than “minor errors”, so smaller errors aren’t penalized as severely.

> Japanese lines, group scripts.
>> “Most accurate” translation, how I would translate it after observing all groups’ work. These translations are more accurate and have equal or better nuance than rest. These are translated for the purpose of being as clear and detailed as possible for this comparison, and may be awkwardly phrased or longer than desired. Release translations are fine as long as they have no asterisks beside them.
>>> Comments.
/ Line breaks.
[…], [text] are previous or following line in CR timed differently by groups.
{} Alternative translations. Often different LS choices.
Liberal Scale (LS)

Lyrics Errors (weighted):

***Comm: 2:43, 2:54, 3:15, 3:27, 3:31
**HTY: 3:36, 21:58
*UTW: 3:32

I’m not going to comment too much on lyrics because these groups didn’t really translate the script from scratch and they’re probably fixed in recent episodes as official lyrics are out, so it wouldn’t be a good gauge of Japanese comprehension anyway.

Comm: ED was pretty good, but OP had a whole bunch of misheard lines.
HTY: Pretty much the literal translation. Translation accuracy is decent for both OP and ED, but a whole bunch of Japanese particles were misheard.
UTW: One sloppy in mistake in the OP, and an interpretation that I didn’t really like, but arguably correct. I translated the ED, which was then edited, so obviously I didn’t see any mistakes lol.

Script:

>CR: spear wielder.
>***Comm: You can’t believe that a pretty face will save you from my blade, can you? / How absurd.
>***HTY: You don’t believe that a nice face will save you from my blade, do you? / How absurd.
>UTW: Surely you aren’t expecting your pretty face to save you from my blade, Lancer.
>>Spear wielder.

>>> 「槍使い」 is literally “spear wielder”.
UTW: further interpreted as Lancer.
No idea what niconico (Comm/HTY) misheard for. This is a blatant translation error in the first minute that’s enough to tell me which group TLCed, and which one didn’t.

>*CR:
>**Comm: Then the tales of Saber class’s anti-magic abilities were accurate.
>**HTY: Then the tales of the Saber class’s anti-magic abilities were accurate.
>UTW: The anti-magic skill of a Saber-class Servant is no fairy tale.
>> The Saber Class’s anti-magic{spell block?} capability sure is nothing to be sneezed at.

>>> CR: Lancer implies that he already knew it in advance in this line.
Comm/HTY: sounds like there really were tales, which is not what was meant by this line.

>***CR:
>**Comm: I’d prefer not to kill a girl who’s throwing herself at me, anyway.
>**HTY: I prefer not to kill a girl who’s throwing herself at me, anyway.
>UTW: Cutting down a woman softened by my face would only soil my reputation, anyway.
>> Killing a woman disarmed by my looks would’ve tarnished my reputation.

>>> CR: no mention of his ability. Forgets “lost the” before “will to fight”.
Comm/HTY (nico): over-interpretation, he used a term that means “weak kneed woman”. Also, no mention of reputation/honor.

>CR:
>*Comm: Anyone seeing it would think so.
>*HTY: Anyone who sees it will think the same.
>UTW: But anyone who saw it would think so, too.
>> But it would be the obvious spot for everyone.

>>> Comm/HTY: Clarity.
It’s probably a bad idea to be in obvious places in this kind of situation because they can be easily discovered. It leads to the next line, so that they can also see who shows up next.

>*CR:
>*Comm: We’ll find a point from which we can monitor
>*HTY: We’ll find a point where we can monitor […]
>*UTW: We’ll find points where we can monitor […]
>> Position yourself where you can monitor […]

>>> 「就くんだ」This line could theoretically be “we”, but it’s more likely just “you” in order form. He’s higher up in the chain of command and has been ordering her around, and does so in this episode as well. He has the veto power in decision making.

>CR:
>*Comm: Let’s see what you can do […]
>*HTY: Let’s see what you can do, […]
>*UTW: Let’s see what you can do, […]
>> Let’s see what you’re made of.

>>> Poor nuance. He wants to gauge Saber’s strength.

>CR:
>*Comm: Saber is watching both spear at once.
>*HTY: Saber is watching both spears simultaneously.
>UTW: Saber is looking out for both spears simultaneously.
>> UTW’s line.

>>> Paying attention, being careful against both, not just watching.

>***CR:
>***Comm: Lancer’s greatest advantage is his opponent’s uncertain as to which he will use.
>***HTY: Lancer’s greatest advantage is confusing his opponent on which he will use.
>UTW: She doesn’t know which of Lancer’s spears is his trump card.
>> UTW’s line.

>>> This is pretty much connected to the previously line. Still talking about Saber. It’s the reason why Saber’s looking out for both, not what Lancer’s disadvantages are.
Also CR: not the strongest attack, the whole scene is about figuring out which one is the Noble Phantasm (NP). lit. “the trump card” in this line.

>**CR:
>*Comm: If I were sure, I could attack.
>*HTY: If I were sure, I could attack.
>*UTW: If I can ascertain which, I can make my attack.
>> If I can identify it, I can come up with a way to attack.

>>> CR: over-interpretation.
Other 3: 「勝負の掛けようもある」 is pretty much “I’ll have ways of challenging him.”

>CR:
>Comm: If only we at least knew his true name… / My guess is that the sword reveals your true name.
>HTY: If only we knew his true name… / I’m guessing the sword reveals your true name.
>**UTW: If only we knew his real name. / My guess is that the sword reveals your true name.

>>> Consistency error, probably forgot to change the second instance. “Real name” or “true name”.

>***CR:
>*Comm: However, that will not suffice.
>*HTY: However, that will not be enough.
>*UTW: But that will not suffice.
>> Still not enough information.

>>> No context / unnecessary ambiguity. This follows the previous scene, where she’s trying to figure out his identity based on info such as his mastery of spear.
CR: Saber is not wondering what his other skills are.

>**CR:
>*Comm: You’re on the defensive!
>*HTY: You’re on the defensive!
>*UTW: You’re on the defensive!
>>You’re holding back in your attack!{LS-8 Show me your true strength!}

>>> CR: Lancer knows Saber is strong. This is not a declaration of his superiority.
Other 3: Over-interpretation, Saber is technically on the defensive, but that’s not what he’s talking about. Saber is being overly cautious in her offensive strikes because she doesn’t know which spear is the NP.

>CR:
>*Comm: He’s impressive!
>*HTY: He’s impressive!
>*UTW: He’s impressive.
>> CR’s line

>>> Nuance. A quick thought that pretty much means “his skills are the real deal”.

>**CR:
>**Comm: Without knowing its precise length, I cannot get close enough to strike.
>**HTY: Without knowing its precise length, I cannot get close enough to strike.
>UTW: I can’t judge my distances without knowing that blade’s length.
>> UTW’s line.

>>> CR: Talking about the distance, not time.
Comm/HTY: He can get close enough, but it’s risky and that’s not what he was talking about. Lancer is commenting on the difficulty of determining how close he should be for each strike.

>**CR: Mion River
>**Comm: Something is happening among the warehouses at the mouth of the Miongawa River.
>**HTY: Something is happening by the warehouses at the Miongawa River‘s mouth.
>**UTW: There’s activity at the warehouses at the Miongawa River mouth.
>> Mion River. {OR Minongawa}

>>> “Miongawa River” is like saying “Mion River River”. People have a habit of keeping “gawa/kawa” in short river names for some reason, but this is in no way correct.
CR: “district” is a bad literal translation. It means “where warehouses are gathered” -> “warehouses”.

>**CR:
>***Comm: Most parameters are at Rank A or higher.
>***HTY: Most categories are at Rank A or higher.
>UTW: Most of them appear to be ranked A.
>> Almost all her stats are in the range of Rank A.

>>> Her stats are in that vicinity of that rank (A+, A, A-). Not “solidly” or worse, “higher”.
UTW: “appear to be” provides enough ambiguity/uncertainty that it’s not “solidly” or “higher”, though “are about” may have been better and shorter.

>CR:
>**Comm: I suppose she is considered the strongest class.
>**HTY: I suppose she is considered the strongest class.
>UTW: She is the strongest Servant class, after all.
>> CR’s line

>>> He knows that Saber Class is usually regarded as the strongest. Once again impressed by it here.

>**CR:
>Comm: Can you see either Master?
>HTY: Can you see either Masters?
>UTW: Can you see either Master?
>> Comm/UTW’s line.

>>> Context error. Technically, this guy can see only if Assassin sees, but the question is directed towards him, not asking about Assassin.

>***CR:
>**Comm: Standing next to Saber…
>**HTY: Standing next to Saber
>UTW: She’s standing behind Saber.
>> UTW’s line

>>> CR: over-interpretation/scriptwriting and logic error. She’s still hiding behind Saber, just not hiding as much as the other master.
Comm/HTY: this line says, and she really was behind Saber in previous scenes.

>CR:
>Comm: This person understands the rules of the Holy Grail War.
>***HTY: They understand the rules of the Holy Grail War.
>UTW: He understands the rules of the Holy Grail War.
>> CR’s line

>>> Blatant context error. As far as they know, Saber’s master doesn’t understand it.

>CR:
>***Comm: That doesn’t sound human.
>***HTY: That doesn’t sound human.
>*UTW: She doesn’t look human.
>> CR’s line

>>> She looks like human, but she’s distinctly different.
Comm/HTY: he literally said “It seems”, and they definitely weren’t talking about her voice. He’s probably seeing through Assassin’s eyes rather than hearing reports too.

>CR:
>**Comm: Did they create an artificial Master?
>**HTY: Did they create an artificial Master?
>UTW: So they created yet another artificial Master.
>> UTW’s line

>>> He implies they have before, and again now.

>**CR:
>Comm: Looks like I was wrong.
>HTY: Looks like I was wrong.
>UTW: It appears I was wrong.
>> Any of 3 groups’ line.

>>> His guess for the previous line was wrong.

>CR:
>*Comm: Either way, she’ll be a critical factor in the rest of the Grail War.
>*HTY: Either way, she’ll be a critical factor in the rest of the Grail War.
>UTW: Either way, she’ll heavily influence the outcome of the Grail War.
>> CR’s line

>>> Nuance/detail. She’ll directly affect the course/outcome of the war.

>CR:
>*Comm: I knew something was strange.
>*HTY: I knew something wasn’t right.
>UTW: I knew something was amiss.
>> CR’s line

>>> Nuance/detail. There is more going on in the background that they weren’t aware of. CR’s line is the best way to localize.

>**CR:
>*Comm: Not against Assassin.
>*HTY: Not against Assassin.
>UTW: Not when it’s Assassin we’re dealing with.
>> UTW’s line

>>>Comm/HTY: Nuance/detail. lit. “The problem is that Assassin turned out to be the one who occupied that spot.” This is a long ass Japanese line that doesn’t need to be condensed to such extremes. Also, it’s actually bad to have only 3 words for 3+ second line because it gives the audience the feeling that it’s not fully translated, which is obviously the case here, even as a high-LS translation.
CR: this line is the outcome for the 3rd comparison: ” But it would be the obvious spot for everyone.” The point of this line is that a Servant had shown up. They were probably hoping for a Master.

>CR:
>*Comm: We’re not equipped to fight Servants right now.
>*HTY: We’re not equipped to fight Servants right now.
>*UTW: We aren’t equipped to fight Servants right now.
>> CR’s line

>>> Logic error by niconico. They’re equipped with sniper rifles already. I can’t imagine a rocket launcher is going to hit Assassin, and if a headshot with sniper rifle isn’t going to kill it, I doubt an assault rifle would either. They needed other preparations like having a Servant with them.

>CR:
>**Comm: The Invisible Air is disintegrating?
>**HTY: The Invisible Air spell is disintegrating?
>UTW: The Invisible Air was dispelled?!
>> CR/UTW’s line

>>> Logic/tense error. It was dispersed/dispelled only for a second earlier. It’s back on.

>*CR:
>*Comm: Now I needn’t worry about being struck!
>*HTY: Now I don’t have to worry about getting hit!
>*UTW: Now I don’t need to worry about getting struck!
>> I won’t misjudge my distances again.

>>> This contrasts “I can’t judge my distances without knowing that blade’s length” line, now that he grasped its full measurement.

>***CR:
>***Comm: If I simply wait for an attack… / One that’s less powerful than the rest…
>***HTY: If I simply wait for an attack… / One that’s less powerful than the rest…
>*UTW: If I can just wait for… / …a brash attack…
>> If I can take advantage of… / a sloppy attack…

>>> lit. “If I don’t miss my chance for / a poorly executed attack”.
CR: “endure” is not what’s meant here (translator scriptwriting).
Comm/HTY: niconico TL went full-retard here and wrote 7 words (entire second line) for a 3-character long Japanese word, not fixed.
UTW: still kept “wait”, which is too much simplification. She didn’t have to wait for it either in the story, as it came right after this scene. She knew it was coming using her 6th sense as a warrior o.O;

>CR:
>**Comm: The armor itself isn’t penetrated?
>**HTY: The armor itself isn’t penetrated?
>UTW: The armor itself wasn’t pierced.
>> My armor is still unscathed?

>>> Comm/HTY: Dumb logic error by niconico. She’s freaking bleeding. The spear penetrated the armor without breaking it cuz magic!

>**CR:
>Comm: That was a misstep.
>HTY: That was a mistake.
>UTW: I’m telling you that’s a mistake.
>> That’s another mistake.

>>> This line is arguably an emphasis in his mind that Saber taking off her armor was a mistake, but it makes more sense that Saber made another mistake in falling for his trap. This line is definitely not “You lose”, which is an over-interpretation.

>**CR:
>**Comm: A Noble Phantasm needn’t merely be a single weapon.
>**HTY: A Noble Phantasm doesn’t have to be a single weapon.
>**UTW: Noble Phantasms need not be limited to one.
>> He{Each Servant} can possess more than one Noble Phantasm!

>>> Japanese line has no context, so it must be added to make sense.
CR: this is a standard setting explanation that they ignored.
Comm/HTY: That is not what’s implied. Lancer’s spears aren’t a set (“twin lance”)… they have different designs and names, so they don’t count as one NP. Rider also mentioned in an earlier episode that some Servants possess multiple NPs, and Lancer is one of them.
UTW: went derp and stated the obvious. If it’s plural, then it’s more than one lol. No context and does not fully reflect what Saber said.

>*CR:
>**Comm: Lancer has begun his ultimate attack.
>**HTY: Lancer has begun his ultimate attack.
>*UTW: Lancer has used his ultimate attack.
>> Lancer just unleashed his finishing move.

>>> 「決め技」 is the move that decides the winner, AKA “finishing move” although it failed thanks to Saber’s skillz. It was referring to the trap in the previous screen, and he already used it.

>**CR:
>Comm: The plan was to attack once they’d knocked each other out!
>HTY: The plan was to attack once they have knocked each other out!
>UTW: Wasn’t the plan to attack after they’ve knocked each other out?
>> Any of the other 3 lines

>>> The plan he was thinking was obviously to crush the last survivor who had worn out from previous battles, not joining in while they’re fighting.

>***CR:
>**Comm: And with the chance to fight as many as six, / I’d hate to miss out on a single one.
>**HTY: And with the chance to fight as many as six, / I would hate to miss out on a single one.
>**UTW: And with the chance to fight as many as six, I can’t allow one of them to fall right now.
>> If six such heroes gathered in one place, I’d get to fight all of them{I wouldn’t be missing a single one}!

>>> This is a continuation of an earlier line that it would be faster to take them on all at once. Response to what was asked by Rider’s master. The significance of the line is that it shows his cockiness. All the interpretations missed the true meaning.
CR: extra logic error. If six gathered here, then none would be missing.

>***CR:
>*Comm: Both are valiant warriors whom I would dearly love to duel.
>*HTY: Both are valiant warriors whom I would dearly love to duel.
>*UTW: Both are valiant warriors I would love to duel with.
>> Both are valiant warriors who fires up my fighting spirit!

>>> I hate using “fighting spirit”, but that’s closest to what’s being said. Logic error on 3 groups: he wants to fight them all at once, not duel. “fight” would’ve worked.
CR: commits major context error and retarded line break.

>***CR:
>*Comm: To win, but not destroy. / To master, but not humiliate…
>*HTY: To win, but not destroy. / To master, but not humiliate.
>UTW: To win, but not destroy… / To conquer, but not humiliate…
>> To win without destruction, / and to conquer without humiliation…

>>> He’s the “conqueror” and that was what was said as well. Best liberal and literal translations for this term are one and the same in this case.
CR: completely made up.

>**CR:
>Comm: That is true conquest!
>HTY: That is true conquest!
>UTW: That is what true conquest is!
>> That’s how a real conquest is done!

>>> CR: Scriptwriting.

>*CR:
>**Comm: Still, I really do like that!
>**HTY: Still, I really do like that!
>UTW: Still, I admire your persistence!
>> UTW’s line

>>> CR: poor. Talking about how she still doesn’t die.
Comm/HTY: no mention of persistence, too dumbed down.

>**CR:
>*Comm: [fool.] You still haven’t finished her.
>**HTY: [fool.] You haven’t finished her.
>UTW: [fool.] You missed the chance to defeat her.
>> Imbecile! You missed the chance to defeat her.

>>> Talking about what just happened.

>***CR:
>Comm: I should have noticed sooner.
>HTY: I should have noticed sooner.
>UTW: I should have realized this sooner.
>> Other 3 groups’ lines.

>>> Dumb context error.

>***CR:
>Comm: To face the legendary King of Knights / and land even a single blow…
>HTY: To face the legendary King of Knights / and land even a single blow…
>UTW: To face the legendary King of Knights and land even a single blow…
>> To cross swords with the legendary King of Knights and even land a blow!

>>> Misinterpreted (ignored?) 「一矢を報いる」, and second line is pretty much made up.

>CR:
>*Comm: I must be quite skilled.
>*HTY: I must be quite skilled.
>UTW: I must be pretty skilled myself.
>> Looks like I’m no small fry myself.

>>> Nuance. The fact that he can put up a fight against King of Knights rather than just self-compliment.

>***CR:
>***Comm: It’s humiliating that you would concern yourself over such a scratch.
>***HTY: It’s humiliating that you would concern yourself over a scratch.
>*UTW: It is humiliating that you would be concerned over such a scratch.
>> Your concern over such a small scratch is rather insulting to me.

>>> CR: wut?
Comm/HTY: major context error, sounds like she’s saying Lancer is humiliating himself.
UTW: unnecessary ambiguity.

>***CR:
>Comm: Only if I fail to strike first, Lancer.
>HTY: Only if I fail to strike first, Lancer.
>UTW: Only if I don’t get you first, Lancer.
>> 3 groups’ line

>>> Major context error.

>**CR:
>*Comm: Episode 4 / The Demon Spear
>HTY: Episode 4 / Blade of the Demon Spear
>UTW: Episode 4 / Blade of the Demon Spear
>> Enchanted Demon Spear Strikes

>>> 「xxxの刃」 lit. “blade of” usually means “strikes” in titles (although this interpretation is considered to be extreme liberal TL, and usually not on elaborate weapons i.e. teeth), as in “get a taste of the blade” or “blade meets skin”. Also in context, the spear is not demonic. 「魔」 most likely means “magical” here. Literal translations are still acceptable in titles, but maybe they should be plural since it no longer is about the strike that landed, and Lancer has 2 spears (this depends on interpretation of whether the short spear was more important or not though).
CR: Are you guys serious? Completely cuts off Magical/Demonic part, and it sounds uncool as hell.
Comm: At least spearhead/blade is still part of the spear. “Demon Spearhead” would’ve been acceptable.

Technical Scores

Commie: 7 Critical + 13 Minor + 18 Nitpick = -79
Hatsuyuki: 7 Critical + 15 Minor +  16 Nitpick = -81
UTW: 0 Critical + 4 Minor + 14 Nitpick = -22
Crunchyroll: 12 Critical + 14 Minor + 4 Nitpick = -92

Fate/Zero Difficulty 8

Commie = B-, LS-5
Their script is very vulnerable to niconico quality, which appears to vary by episode. Their total number of errors are same as Hatsuyuki. This means few if any translation mistakes were fixed by editors alone, which is not at all surprising. They did manage to reduce 2 “minors” to “nitpick” level though (compared to Hatsuyuki). VN translation terminology (from what I hear) and speed are the only reasons to go for this release, although I had no problem with UTW’s terminology, and to be honest, official translations of manga/VN usually suck due to low budget, so in the end, it’s just preference of which one you like more.

UTW = A-, LS-5
In episode 1, I grabbed a script named something like FateZero.01.NicoNico.ass from FTP for the niconico review. It was perfect for the first 5 minutes or so, then it turned shit all of a sudden. I was like “WTF, the translation sucks after 5 mins” in IRC, and later found out that was exactly how far the TLC went up to. True story.
This is the only release with a capable TLC and it’s by far the best translated release as you can see from the score.

Hatsuyuki = B-, LS-4
They lied about TLCing in their release post, or this TLC: Rose_t guy is an incompetent fuck. I just wasted 2 hours by including these guys in this review.
Practically every translation errors were on the same ones as Commie, which doesn’t have a TLC credited in their website.
There is no need to wait for this release.

Naruto-kun: Rose_t stopped TLCing after episode 01. It was the Leader’s mistake. He copied from old topic and forgot to delete the credit to TLC.

Crunchyroll = C-, LS-6/9
Two translators must have worked on this and split the script into half, because it’s hard to imagine there was a tight deadline in a 7-day delayed release that caused it to be so crappy. The first half was rather good, and had “best lines” more often than other groups (and lines I can’t significantly improve). The second half was absolutely horrible with massive amounts of misinterpretations and made up localizations. This release just overtook Funimation’s Horizon as the worst prosub I reviewed this season.

——————————————————————————————————————————————————

Additional notes: Commie and Hatsuyuki were arbitrarily upgraded by 1/3 of a grade since niconico releases are not that horrible every week. Their timing was a lot easier to read though.